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Forum : Synforum  >  Synforum  >  The Engine Room
Message Icon Topic: TYR February (Issue 92): The machinery space Post Reply Post New Topic
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Chief
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Quote Chief Replybullet Posted: 15 Jan 2008 at 8:48am

doodad, thank you for your response,

“Certainly there are a many noble ways to generate power …”  Though the process may often be elegant, the generation of power will always remain an ignoble enterprise.

 

Transformation of the owner’s cash to caloric flow by rending the structure of hydrocarbon molecules is a violent business, subject to randomness and the threat of chaos. But that is not to say those acolytes in the temple of the gods of thermodynamics are not an exalted fellowship, far from it, they are at the pinnacle of nobility.

 

I believe time will convince you of the viability of DE and the concept of an integrated electric propulsion system. The big players have already moved in that direction and with the rapid rise in fuel prices many more will follow. Ships with operational profiles that demand high power for transit and high hotel loads between ports, followed by extended periods during which no propulsion is required with widely varying hotel loads are perfect candidates for DE power.

 

Tankships, cruiseships, and yachts share this profile. The cruise industry adopted the technology early on and a large percentage of new build tankers (which have very high power requirements during discharge) have incorporated multiple engine diesel-electric propulsion and power generation systems.

 

If by “the market” you mean the yachting market, you must remember that the yachting industry is among the more tradition bound groups at sea today. Those shipowners and designers who have moved to DE have approached the technology as engineers and businessmen, they know very well how to operate a ship efficiently and economically. They are in business to do just that and only that, and they do it extremely well.

 

In the yacht industry we are hindered by an overly (technically) conservative approach fostered by designers who value form over function, builders who stick to what has always worked for them (low risk), and that strange species peculiar to the industry, the “owners rep” who may or may not (usually not) have a clue about anything to do with converting the BTUs in a fuel tank to kW, or the application of appropriate technology yet have amazing power in the owner’s decision process.

 

The latest electronically controlled gensets are remarkably clean in comparison to their predecessors but are still prone to problems related to low output operation. What is not often mentioned is the fact that they require a higher level of maintenance to maintain the emissions level to which they were certified. I don’t know of many yachts that carry sufficient spares to change injectors every 25 days of running much less have an engineer who is prepared to change them.

 

There are technical solutions to exhaust problems. We can install soot reduction devices, catalytic converters and other palliative means to prevent annoying our neighbors or offending the charter guests, but these devices are not a solution to the problems created by continuing to apply old thinking to new operating conditions. They also require substantial machinery space volume, the lack of which and the reasons for that lack take us back to the origin of this discussion.

 

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TYRG
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Quote TYRG Replybullet Posted: 08 Feb 2008 at 7:54am
"You have to use the space efficiently and you don’t want to waste space but as far as maintaining the equipment goes, if you make equipment actually difficult to get to then you’ve only got so many hours in the day and then if you can't maintain things properly because you can't get to them, things don’t get maintained properly and this influences refit costs and ongoing expenses for the owner that they don’t realise, they think oh it's great to have this extra space. But when you hand them the €2million refit bill that could really have been €1million if things had been designed properly perhaps they would consider it would be better not to have that extra space that they weren’t going to use anyway."

Clive Oxford, quoted from discussions at the Global Superyacht Forum 2007
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TYRG
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Quote TYRG Replybullet Posted: 08 Feb 2008 at 7:56am
"the proximity of certain items of equipment to each other, just as a safety issue, the failure of one system, maybe a fire risk, high pressure fuel we know about, lubrications, oil, high pressure water near switchboards, and that sort of thing… Some of it is just corrosion, with the constant dripping, or failure of a gasket and it damages equipment below, or damages the seals. So there are some safety issues as well in the layout as well as the access and space issues."

Phil Noad of the Cayman Islands Shipping Registry, taken from discussions at the Global Superyact Forum 2007

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expedition
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Quote expedition Replybullet Posted: 20 Mar 2008 at 10:14am
You may not believe this but in our case the engineroom is actually too big !
 
I'm an engineer so how can it ever by too big?  Well, it's not too big as far as I'm concerned but we have to move a bulkhead to reduce its size to be in compliance with MCA damage stability regulations.  It used to be fishing boat, that's why.
 
It still stil be a great place to work and all other equipment will also have very easy access. Except the air handlers work on any equipment does not need stateroom access.   Of course, this kind of luxury may be very hard on a typical yacht.
 
Thorwald
 
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zuohuijuan
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Quote zuohuijuan Replybullet Posted: 17 Aug 2010 at 8:39pm
On a large percentage of vessels, ships and boats, the engine room is located near the bottom, and at the rear, or aft, end of the vessel, and usually comprises few compartments. billig ugg stiefelThis design maximizes the cargo carrying capacity of the vessel and situates the prime mover close to the propeller, minimizing equipment cost and problemsugg stiefel  posed from long shaft lines. The engine room on some ships may be situated mid-ship, especially on vessels built from 1900 to the 1960s.ugg
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